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Seriosly, stop the projectile falloff nonsense.

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Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.08.14 17:36:00 - [1] The synergy created between AC's and TE's is insane, add to that the unchanged Matari hulls that can all oversize pretty much anything they want and still be able to field 'appropriate' weapons. To all you brilliant debaters who would ridicule a person than address the issue brought up: If the AC/TE combination wasn't broken why is almost all current PvP ships (low-sec) shield/nano Matari hulls? CCP made an huge error when they balanced projectiles. Guns are now where they should be performance wise and TE's benefit everyone so those can't be faulted, leaving just the hulls. Increase AC grid requirement across the board. Force the dirty little slaves to make sacrifices like everyone else!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.08.15 17:14:00 - [2] Originally by: Mysteriax What has been FOTM for more then 1 year is amarr. In large fleet engagements most certainly, lasers are good in static slugfests. PL's Fist is latest iteration but is a failure-cascade waiting to happen without T3's boosting it Originally by: Mysteriax Also minmatar is still by far the least flown race get your figures right or get off this forum. I take it you will be signing off momentarily then? Do check Top20 lists on the various killboards that collect from multiple sources and you'll see the only ship used more than Hurricanes is the lol-Drake. Originally by: Mysteriax Since you fly in low sec you also know 1v1 the minmatar ship of the same class (ship classes which matter) they will almost always lose, the only thing minmatar has going for it, is that they usually can disengage since they are very slightly faster. Talking 1 vs. 1: Plate Rupture > All cruisers. Plate Cane > All BCs. Phoon > BS. Thrasher > Destroyers. Rifter ≥ All frigates (not that it matters since everything is Dram'ed up these days). So yea, the Matari line-up is really in a bad, bad place when it comes to skirmishing. And that "very slightly faster" in reality means that a trimark/plate fitted Matari hull is as fast or faster than all non-plated adversaries of other races .. perhaps very slightly means something different where you come from but really? Projectile buff, while needed/warranted, failed to take existing ship characteristics into account creating the Matari FoTM by a wide margin. That is fact, and it is as straight as it comes.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.08.21 10:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Sigras you guys still think autocannons are OP? it seems pretty clear to me that the OP weapon is the laser By perspective you must mean "your point of view only" since BS sitting still shooting a stationary target is pretty much what Amarr/lasers were designed for .. if they didn't outclass everything else something really would be amiss. Problem is that once one actually start running numbers (or Goddess forbid try it oneself!) the AC/TE/Shield buffer combo breaks the whole thing quite handily. Lower absolute damage (EFT For-the-Fail) but with tracking and speed through the roof (both a good 30-50% higher) than everything else in a given class. Another little tidbit that few consider is that lasers for all their power and range stop dealing damage well before AC's due to having palsy fall-off .. once an enemy is out of optimal you might as well go home. So yeah, if you would like the game to balanced based on battleships sitting still firing broadsides at one another, your graphs/conclusion have merit .. if you however realise that there is more to it then they are quite worthless. Current AC boats are way too strong considering that guns require no cap, have ridiculously low fitting requirements and near perfect ammo types (most have ample drones to boot!). AC's are so good that the skirmish thing of Minmatar has gone out the window since they now have the firepower to make the inferior tanks a moot point should they choose to play the brick game. Increase AC fittings. If one wants tank one cannot have gank!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.08.21 17:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Liang Nuren Nah, As to the question of nerfing AC fittings: I don't know that this is a good idea: You see the exact same thing with HAM's, Heavy Pulse and Neutrons .. difference is that for ACs the fitting constraints are no where near as pronounced as for the others, essentially letting the Minmatar hulls "get away" with using an implant or a single fitting mod/rig to get the fat buffer as well as the big guns. It doesn't require much in the way of increase, just enough to force a downgrade of weapons, buffer or using the second fitting mod/rig. Ex. Hurricane will happily use 425's, MWD/Inject, 1600 and still have grid to spare .. it ONLY needs fitting mod/rig if pilot insists on using medium neuts/HAMs/Heavies. Rupture is not as bad, but still insane compared to the other gun cruisers - they have no hope in hell of getting the BS plate on while retaining any meaningful range/damage. So increasing grid on AC boats would make adjusting AC fittings pointless. The whole thing stems from CCP/community wanting to "fix" the BS lineup with very little thought being given to how the changes trickle down - Matar BS are awesome now but rest is broken (relatively).
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.08.27 12:03:00 - [5] Originally by: McRoll Finally, especially frigate- and cruiser sized classes are the strong point of the Minmatar. That race is based on speed and hit n' run tactics and they apply in those classes the best. You need to include BC in that statement. Matari has the best line-up sub-BS by a mile and a half; Frigates, Destroyer, Cruisers and Battlecruisers (yes plural, Cyclone is pretty damn good for an old guy!) .. Problem is that the Hit'n'Run argument died a long time ago, they are better than all other races even when buffering and slugging it out .. that is what the projectile buff did. Twin neut plated cane has more EHP when going against a similarly fitted Harbinger, it has more speed, can run both neuts permanently and does roughly the same damage out to 4-5km .. not as if it matter since the Harbinger wont be shooting for very long. As for BS: The revamped Typhoon is probably the single best brawler around. Nothing comes close to twin neut AC or Torp Phoons in sheer damage (and yes I consider cap warfare damage). If you have ever been on the receiving end of a competently fitted/flown Typhoon you have probably been scratching your head for ages trying to devise a counter that doesn't involve Moar Dudes! or ECM (please let me know if you do find one because I am at a loss). Sum: Projectile buff made Minmatar ships the best at everything except large fleet/RR-Blobs. PS: When a ship needs you to either use faction or the same ship to counter it something is off.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.08.27 15:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Kaileen Starsong Projectile buff changed exactly what in this match up? Damage was increased and damage types were 'purified' which adds up to a rather large overall damage increase. Phased Plasma is just ridiculous now Originally by: Kaileen Starsong ... excepting Dramiel which should receive sledgehammer surgery as it was mentioned NOT **ING ONCE in this thread. It's been done to death everywhere else so no need in dragging it in. plenty of Dramiel bashing threads to choose from Originally by:** Kaileen Starsong For Cruisers it's more of a general crappy lineups of T1 cruisers for all races, save Rupture and Vexor, pretty much. T2... well, if you think Vaga/Muninn are awesome.. I think everyone with half a brain agrees that Amarr rule the T2 Cruiser niche with an iron fist although there are some above average hulls other than the Gold'n'Black (Scimitar, Rapier, Ishtar for instance). But when it comes to T1 cruisers there are none that are even in the same ballpark as the Rupture in performance .. even Vexor is horribly outgunned (assuming drones are slaughtered as they ought to). Originally by: Moose Burger What if i blob you with 10 times more Drakes.. Just checking to see you are trolling before I report your post; your take is if something can be defeated by blobbing it it is balanced? Hmmmmm...
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.02 13:25:00 - [7] Originally by: souhyeahright What you're saying is that autocannons are good to fit if you like flying terrible low DPS, high tank ships that are pretty useless no matter what weapons you stick on them. Holy f***, bring forth the nerfbat! Did you just call my lovely Punisher useless? For the Amarr tank hulls there are quite a few reasons to use autos. - No cap, means neuting and active tanking can be done with clever cycle management. - Stupidly low fittings, allows pretty much anything you want to fit other than the guns. - High damage, due to damage type they are only really surpassed by blasters when it comes to actual applied damage. So you see, with no damage bonus lasers are really not a good choice. Same can be seen in autos being frequently used a range of Gallente ships - even the Caldari Moa can benefit from autos over blasters for Goddess' sake!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.02 16:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Liang Nuren Actually, we have:... I have not seen a Blaster-Amarr since the MWD-kill scramblers were introduced. There was a short period where lasers actually made it back on the tank hulls but it's all autos now Originally by: Akisawa amarr ships are fine as they are, its the instareload lazors which make them so shiny and so adaptable =)... Nope. The one redeeming factor of lasers is T2 long range pulse ammunition, commonly referred to as Scorch. If that crystal didn't exist lasers would be absolute crap, worse even than hybrids (how is that for bold statement!) Originally by: Naomi Knight So in short ACs are just OP. I would never be so crude, I enjoy spewing garbage while making my points but you'll hear no arguments from me
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.02 17:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Captain Merkin Great well at least if thats the case no one is going to moan about hybrids from now on! The tracking/range ratio puts lasers above blasters. Blasters track a smidgen better but at 1/4 the range .. with that kind of range deficit the tracking needs to be significantly higher for them to be in running. So alas, hybrid moans will continue. At least they have an actual cause with relatively clear problems that needs attending
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.03 06:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 03/09/2010 06:56:02 Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Its actually the ability to switch between scorch and navy mf instantly that makes scorch so strong. With barrage or null you have to suffer a 10 second reload time to switch between them... The fast switch is part of Scorch power but after projectile buff it doesn't actually tally as an advantage. The AC/TE pilot can load whatever ammo he damn well pleases and do 30-50% at Scorch ranges Barrage is not even needed any more .. his considerably (20%+) higher speed increases this damage as he rams his target achieving applied damage numbers that exceed anything lasers with MF can dish out once tracking takes its pound. Blasters don't even enter the picture as they are in half armour by the time they start on a laser boat and are dead without even touching an AC boat .. but a different discussion so wont go into it here. That is the crux of this whole debacle, AC+TE = Godmode (I equate it to the FPS AimBots). CCP failed to consider what AC/TE would do when added to ships with 2-3 weapon bonuses creating the sniping AC Machariel, untouchable kiting Cynabals, Nano-Cane, Nano-Rupture, Super-cane (Tempest) et al. My suggested solution still stands: Increase AC fittings to a point where they are no longer trivial to fit and forces actual compromises when going for the biggest barrels.

Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.03 09:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren That is a completely ****ed thing to suggest before the blaster boost happens. And it will happen. I fail to see what the impending hybrid work has to do with balancing the broken AC/TE combination. The only effect it could possibly have on game is to make hybrids the new 'OP' so that AC/TE pales in comparison which is definitely not my idea of balancing. Originally by:** Liang Nuren Ed: Also, you might want to try fixing the "untouchable" ships before you go nerfing the entirety of the Minmatar lineup.... A minor grid increase of 5-10% is all that is required to achieve my desired result. It will not "nerf" any ships but will make many current cookie-cutters impossible without downsizing (thus limiting AC/TE synergy) as well as weaken the untouchables without breaking them. Originally by: Korg Leaf ...Also armor rupture cant fit the biggest 'barrels' with a 1600 plate, neuts and mwd. Same applies to the cane, mwd, 1600 plate, 425's and mwd will leave you short roughly 200 powergrid Oh the horror, the Armour-Cane has to swap a single medium neut for a small to fit biggest guns .. if other races had that same level of "sacrifice" there would be no issue but alas. As for the Rupture; Try fitting plate + medium guns on any other races ship and see what that leaves you by comparison. You either end up having to use fitting mods or a lol-fit. Ex. The Amarr gun cruiser (Omen) cant even fit focused pulse, MWD and 800 plate without using fitting mods!
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.03 15:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Captain Merkin I assume you mean this increase across the board for all autocannons... As has been said so many times look at fixing the ships and guns that are lacking, not nerf something that does its job. That is what brought this whole mess about in the first place. So we increase hybrid performance, then missiles are out of whack .. then lasers .. then damage is too high and EHP is buffed .. This is the way it has been done so far and we are at a point now where you NEED a small blob to kill anything worth a damn .. Originally by: Captain Merkin .. and removing someones ability to fit a decent set up is just spiteful. Try and run the numbers and see just what is lost with a 5-10% increase: - Cookie-cutter armour Rupture has to drop twin small neuts and wont require fitting mods until 6%. - Cookie-cutter 425 armour Hurricane has to "make do" with twin small neuts or use a fitting mod. - Shield varieties are unaffected by grid tweaks. So pray tell what you consider a "decent fit" if the fact that a fitting mod is required for maximum performance is an idea so alien to you. Originally by: Captain Merkin There are plenty of ships you can fit a plate and medium guns on whilst sticking a 1600mm plate let alone a 800mm... Yes, all ships can fit oversized modules + appropriately sized guns when using fitting mods most Amarr/Gallente/Caldari actually have to use multiple, yet it is by and large not required of Minmatar AC fits at all .. Originally by: Zilberfrid My proposals for balancing especially Gallente with the other races: Gallente 10% speed buff, 15% agility loss. Hybrid damage overall 5% damage increase (with no increase to refire). Hybrids get instant reload to capitalise on the different range weapons. Active armor tanking rigs give a penalty to agility instead of speed - Wouldn't a speed increase be shooting yourself in the foot? It is my impression that the biggest hurdle is acceleration so reducing mass is better I think, as long as agility is reduced increasing speed/accel. through mass shouldn't cause major issues. - Instant reload is not possible (due to database calls) for ammo-stack users if I recall the crystal change debate correctly and it would probably mean a loss of some drones on the gun boats. Better to do a major ammo overhaul as was done for projectiles (just not as over-the-top of course ) - Rig re-visit I am all for, their design was severely outdated when small/medium were added ..
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.05 16:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Moose Burger Please dont diss the weapon system just because some "hybrid" ships are bad... How do you mean "some"? No hybrid specific ships are currently worth it except for a few gimmick fits like shield/gank Brutix and triple-rep bait Hyperion. Add to that the weapon system not delivering what it says on the tin (OMGmyFACE!) and it becomes quite clear where the main issue rests. Redesign in the same fashion as was done with projectiles, with clear advantages/disadvantages between the tiers and with ammo that actually adds flavour rather than just AM and Null. Example time: - Tracking is significantly higher for lower tier guns, main difference is damage modifiers ranges do not decrease much. - Short range ammo deals mainly thermal rather than the Caldari Kinetic. - Midrange ammo deals mainly Kinetic, to tap into the range bonuses Caldari have on most ships (rails). - Long range ammo is even Kin/Th but has tracking bonuses added. - All ammo gets more damage. Sort out T2 ammo, increase especially rail damage output and we are done. Took five minutes to cook up so is probably flawed as hell, but should serve as example.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.05 19:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Proxyyyy I like some of your idea's, but i still dont think hybrids are broken. Also, slight increases in optimal and falloff would be kool. In a static BS slug-fest they are actually OK as everything is stationary and bunched together .. once you start moving around or Goddess forbid use BC down hulls they are at a severe disadvantage. Short range/"normal" tracking makes cruiser and frigate blasters hell to use, to function effectively (ie. approach theoretical damage) the cruiser down guns NEED a second web which few/no ships have the mids for .. lasers don't generally care as the enemy is in half armour by the time tracking becomes a major problem. Web changes in QR probably hit blaster boats hardest (yes, harder than Rapiers!) as speed/transversal control was for all intents and purposes lost. Adding tracking in one form or another will help regain that control (or make it a moot point) and tweaking ship speed/agility can make range less of an issue. Not fond of adding range to blasters, I see them as the sawn-off shotguns of Eve, close in and the target vaporizes but at range the opponent shrugs it off as flesh-wounds. NB: A tad messy, but brain is on beer duty so unavailable for editing, hope it still makes some sense.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.06 05:28:00 - [15] Originally by: souhyeahright ...Several of the best frigates across all classes in the game use hybrids... Let me hazard a guess as to the cause of your delusions: Taranis? Has a huge tracking bonus, speed/transversal control achieved - ie. What I suggested be done. Daredevil? Has godwebs, speed/transversal control achieved - better than tracking bonus, but same end result close in. Catalyst/Cormorant? Destroyer tracking is immense, speed/transversal control achieved - ie. What I suggested be done. Enyo? Huge tracking bonus, if it can keep in range it wins 80% of fights .. but with scramblers and no web it needs lol-AB to ensure that. Ishkur? Lives and dies by its drones, gun damage is only deciding factor when it uses .. you guessed it, rails. Have fun dying to the first barrage loaded Rifter you meet, the first Slicer, the first anything with 5km+ range really in anything without huge tracking. Summary: All the small ships that are viable with blasters (ie. in regular service) has huge tracking bonuses. Imagine a world where that tracking was inherent in the weapons themselves and the bonuses were changed to something even more useful like scrambler range, gun range, drones, tank ....
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.09 06:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Cambarus Actually scram frigates are more akin to suicide bombers. Actually? Wow, you have no clue whatsoever do you. A single small nos is almost enough to run MWD+Scram so you are protected against the occasional neut. With a dual-prop solution its a sure thing and you get added scram and partial web protection. If you really have only used cheap T1 hulls in the role then it is no wonder that you underestimate the power of it .. Is it dangerous? Hell yea, tackle role always is regardless of range Is it fun? Ccram duty is the best damn kick to the adrenal gland left in Eve. For the more hectic fights I recommend replacement underwear as well as ships. PS: Standard Assault Caracal can be taken in any kinetic hardened frigate doing high damage at max speed (ie. Slicer ) Did it by blind luck in an AB Crusader once; pilot was new to the Assault Caracal so was not aware of its capabilities, forgot his drones etc. .. Fit was the standard T2/Named mixture. Originally by: Jyngo ..Giving the shortest range weapons the best tracking is a no brainer... Yea, blaster optimal should be: "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" (bolded the pertinent bit ) Still needs a bit extra damage as it is awfully close to other systems even in optimal though.

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